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Volumn 1, Issue 1, 1997, Pages 65-84

Group wrongs and guilt feelings

Author keywords

Collective action; Collective responsibility; Group action; Group intention; Group membership; Groups

Indexed keywords


EID: 61049541143     PISSN: 13824554     EISSN: 15728609     Source Type: Journal    
DOI: 10.1023/A:1009712003678     Document Type: Article
Times cited : (45)

References (60)
  • 1
    • 77449120333 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • In what follows, when I speak of a group acting badly I should be taken to mean "in a blameworthy manner," culpably. The same goes for my references to a group's "wrongdoing
    • In what follows, when I speak of a group acting badly I should be taken to mean "in a blameworthy manner," culpably. The same goes for my references to a group's "wrongdoing."
  • 2
    • 0009285662 scopus 로고
    • See, for instance, Chicago: University of Chicago Press
    • See, for instance, L. May, Sharing Responsibility (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1992), pp. 298-402
    • (1992) Sharing Responsibility , pp. 298-402
    • May, L.1
  • 4
    • 77449092017 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • One feels guilt over something. That is what I mean by "the proper basis for guilt
    • One feels guilt over something. That is what I mean by "the proper basis for guilt."
  • 6
    • 0004031730 scopus 로고
    • Oxford: Clarendon Press, "feelings of guilt ⋯ cannot arise from the deeds or omissions of others
    • G. Taylor, Pride, Shame, and Guilt: Emotions of Self-Assessment (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1985), p. 91, "feelings of guilt ⋯ cannot arise from the deeds or omissions of others."
    • (1985) Pride, Shame, and Guilt: Emotions of Self-Assessment , pp. 9-17
    • Taylor, G.1
  • 7
    • 77449124937 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • Cf. Taylor, loc. cit.: "Guilt itself cannot be vicarious
    • Cf. Taylor, loc. cit.: "Guilt itself cannot be vicarious";
  • 8
    • 77449092769 scopus 로고
    • on the state of bearing guilt) "⋯ there can be no such thing as vicarious guilt," reprinted in L. May and S. Hoffman (eds.), (Savage, MD: Rowman and Littlefield, emphasis Feinberg's
    • J. Feinberg (on the state of bearing guilt) "⋯ there can be no such thing as vicarious guilt," "Collective Responsibility," reprinted in L. May and S. Hoffman (eds.), Collective Responsibility (Savage, MD: Rowman and Littlefield, 1991), p. 60, emphasis Feinberg's.
    • (1991) Collective Responsibility , pp. 6-12
    • Feinberg, J.1
  • 10
    • 77449148983 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • In my book On Social Facts I argue that the term "social group" is standardly under- stood in this way. T shall not repeat the argument here. I take it that the term "group" is often used as short for "social group" interpreted in the way in question
    • In my book On Social Facts I argue that the term "social group" is standardly under- stood in this way. T shall not repeat the argument here. I take it that the term "group" is often used as short for "social group" interpreted in the way in question.
  • 12
    • 77449122422 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • second printing, Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1992), especially Chap. 4
    • second printing, Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1992), especially Chap. 4.
  • 13
    • 0004106770 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • The material on plural subjects that follows here draws on On Social Facts and a number of related articles. Many of these can be found in a forthcoming essay collection, (Lanham,MD: Rowman and Littlefleld, Some more specific references are given in later notes
    • The material on plural subjects that follows here draws on On Social Facts and a number of related articles. Many of these can be found in a forthcoming essay collection, M. Gilbert, Living Together:Rationality, Sociality, and Obligation (Lanham,MD: Rowman and Littlefleld, 1996). Some more specific references are given in later notes.
    • (1996) Living Together:Rationality, Sociality, and Obligation
    • Gilbert, M.1
  • 14
    • 77449114482 scopus 로고
    • Modelling collective belief," 1987, Synthese, and, most recently, remarks on collective belief
    • I have discussed plural subjects of belief in a number of places including On Social Facts, Chap. 5, in F. Schmitt (ed.), (Lanham, MD: Rowman and Littlefleld, The articles are to be reprinted, with some amendments, in Living Together, In On Social Facts, Chap. 6,1 argue that social conventions are jointly accepted principles with the form of a simple fiat, in other words, those with a convention are jointly committed to accept as a body some simple fiat (373ff.)
    • I have discussed plural subjects of belief in a number of places including On Social Facts, Chap. 5, "Modelling Collective Belief," 1987, Synthese, and, most recently, "Remarks on Collective Belief," in F. Schmitt (ed.), Socializing Epistemology: The Social Dimensions of Knowledge (Lanham, MD: Rowman and Littlefleld, 1993). The articles are to be reprinted, with some amendments, in Living Together, In On Social Facts, Chap. 6,1 argue that social conventions are jointly accepted principles with the form of a simple fiat, in other words, those with a convention are jointly committed to accept as a body some simple fiat (373ff.).
    • (1993) Socializing Epistemology: The Social Dimensions of Knowledge
  • 15
    • 77449086538 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • For more on the first person plural pronoun see below in the text
    • For more on the first person plural pronoun see below in the text.
  • 16
    • 77449158180 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • I take it that there must be at least two parties to a joint commitment, and there can be more than two. In every case, insofar as one is committed through a joint commitment, one's "individual commitment" cannot exist on its own (this is the "interdependence" property). If there are just two potential parties to a given joint commitment, neither can be committed through the joint commitment unless the other is. Hence the "individual commitments" must both arise, and cease, simultaneously. The situation with respect to other cases requires more discussion, and I shall not attempt any pronouncements on this score here
    • I take it that there must be at least two parties to a joint commitment, and there can be more than two. In every case, insofar as one is committed through a joint commitment, one's "individual commitment" cannot exist on its own (this is the "interdependence" property). If there are just two potential parties to a given joint commitment, neither can be committed through the joint commitment unless the other is. Hence the "individual commitments" must both arise, and cease, simultaneously. The situation with respect to other cases requires more discussion, and I shall not attempt any pronouncements on this score here.
  • 17
    • 77449156944 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • I argue in a number of places, relatedly, that joint commitments involve obligations in an important and distinctive sense of "obligation
    • I argue in a number of places, relatedly, that joint commitments involve obligations in an important and distinctive sense of "obligation."
  • 18
    • 85050175747 scopus 로고
    • Agreements, coercion, and obligation
    • See, for instance, reprinted in Living Together
    • See, for instance, "Agreements, Coercion, and Obligation," Ethics, 1993, reprinted in Living Together.
    • (1993) Ethics
  • 19
    • 77449121213 scopus 로고
    • Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, Precisely how to define "common knowledge" is somewhat moot. According to one now standard definition, it is common knowledge that p in some population P, if and only if everyone in P knows that p, everyone in P knows that everyone in P knows that p, and soon (ad infinitum). I discuss a somewhat different proposal in On Social Facts, Chap. 4
    • D.K. Lewis, Convention (Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1969). Precisely how to define "common knowledge" is somewhat moot. According to one now standard definition, it is common knowledge that p in some population P, if and only if everyone in P knows that p, everyone in P knows that everyone in P knows that p, and soon (ad infinitum). I discuss a somewhat different proposal in On Social Facts, Chap. 4, pp. 188-195.
    • (1969) Convention , pp. 188-195
    • Lewis, D.K.1
  • 20
    • 0004262394 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • There is some discussion of the case of large group plural subjecthood in and elsewhere. The subject merits more discussion than I gave there or can give here
    • There is some discussion of the case of large group plural subjecthood in On Social Facts, pp. 212-213, and elsewhere. The subject merits more discussion than I gave there or can give here.
    • On Social Facts , pp. 212-213
  • 21
    • 77449114485 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • See Chap. 4, Sec. 3
    • See Chap. 4, Sec. 3
  • 22
    • 77449112699 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • also Chap. 7, Sec. 2
    • also Chap. 7, Sec. 2.
  • 23
    • 77449140767 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • On such uses see On Social Facts, p. 178
    • On such uses see On Social Facts, p. 178.
  • 24
    • 77449094459 scopus 로고
    • The last two paragraphs were prompted by comments from A. Kuflik on the version of my paper presented at the New Jersey Regional Philosophical Association Conference, April 22
    • The last two paragraphs were prompted by comments from A. Kuflik on the version of my paper "Reconsidering the 'Actual Contract' Theory of Potitical Obligation" presented at the New Jersey Regional Philosophical Association Conference, April 22, 1995.
    • (1995) Reconsidering the 'Actual Contract' Theory of Potitical Obligation
  • 25
    • 0040873715 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • Lanham, MD: Rowman and Littlefleld, 1990), "Even to acquiesce and not openly challenge the authority of the state is not sufficient to generate political obligations, since our acquiescence can be a matter of habit, intimidation, or simply apathy
    • Cf. V. Medina, Social Contract Theories (Lanham, MD: Rowman and Littlefleld, 1990), p. 139: "Even to acquiesce and not openly challenge the authority of the state is not sufficient to generate political obligations, since our acquiescence can be a matter of habit, intimidation, or simply apathy."
    • Social Contract Theories , pp. 13-19
    • Medina, V.1
  • 26
    • 77449106155 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • On the question whether pressure, and, indeed, coercoion, precludes joint commitment see "Agreements, Coercion, and Obligation
    • On the question whether pressure, and, indeed, coercoion, precludes joint commitment see "Agreements, Coercion, and Obligation."
  • 27
    • 77449093570 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • Clearly, I am not attempting a complete discussion of what it is for an individual human being to perform an action. I aim only to show that if we take an individual to be performing an action (more or less) when that individual's behavior is guided by an intention, then groups can fulfill analogous conditions: the behavior of the group's members can be guided by the group's intention, as opposed to the personal intentions of the individual members
    • Clearly, I am not attempting a complete discussion of what it is for an individual human being to perform an action. I aim only to show that if we take an individual to be performing an action (more or less) when that individual's behavior is guided by an intention, then groups can fulfill analogous conditions: the behavior of the group's members can be guided by the group's intention, as opposed to the personal intentions of the individual members.
  • 28
    • 77449105748 scopus 로고
    • The account I would give of "our" intention (sometimes referred to as shared or joint intention) is not, therefore, a "summative" account: our intention to do such-and-such is neither wholly or in part constituted by an aggregate or "sum" of closely corresponding personal intentions, one for each of the people concerned. I argue for my non-summative account in "Shared Intention" (1993ms), invited contribution to a symposium on American Philosophical Association Meetings, Pacific Division, San Francisco, March 25
    • The account I would give of "our" intention (sometimes referred to as shared or joint intention) is not, therefore, a "summative" account: our intention to do such-and-such is neither wholly or in part constituted by an aggregate or "sum" of closely corresponding personal intentions, one for each of the people concerned. I argue for my non-summative account in "Shared Intention" (1993ms), invited contribution to a symposium on "Shared or Joint Intention," American Philosophical Association Meetings, Pacific Division, San Francisco, March 25,1993.
    • (1993) Shared or Joint Intention
  • 29
    • 0005217458 scopus 로고
    • Shared intention
    • I take Bratman and myself to have the same analysandum in mind, a certain standard sense of "our intention." According to Bratman, it is a logically necessary condition of our intending to paint the house together that each of us personally intends that we paint the house together. Thus for Bratman "our intention to do such-and-such" is in part a "sum" of closely corresponding personal intentions. For discussion and criticism of a number of summative views of shared, joint or (what I call) collective belief see On Social Facts, Chap. 5, and elsewhere
    • Cf. M. Bratman, "Shared Intention," Ethics 104(1993), pp. 97- 113. I take Bratman and myself to have the same analysandum in mind, a certain standard sense of "our intention." According to Bratman, it is a logically necessary condition of our intending to paint the house together that each of us personally intends that we paint the house together. Thus for Bratman "our intention to do such-and-such" is in part a "sum" of closely corresponding personal intentions. For discussion and criticism of a number of summative views of shared, joint or (what I call) collective belief see On Social Facts, Chap. 5, and elsewhere.
    • (1993) Ethics , vol.104 , pp. 97-113
    • Bratman, M.1
  • 30
    • 77449125445 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • note
    • Precisely what a given person could "reasonably have been expected to do" in a given case may not be clear. This may be the occasion of serious moral debate. In what follows I shall simply take it that there are some relatively clear cases of doing what one reasonably could have, been expected to do in the. circumstances.
  • 31
    • 77449151532 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • note
    • Perhaps this does not count as "doing everything I could to prevent the action," since it is not clear that unexpressed condemnation goes any way to prevent the action. On the other hand, in these special circumstances this is as far as I can go towards preventing the action. Condemnation is the first step to deliberate preventive action.
  • 32
    • 77449119072 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • note
    • This point added in response to a conversation with D. Luban, October 1995. Precisely when and why some ignorance is culpable is a matter of some delicacy into which I make no attempt to enter here. Evidently people sometimes experience guilt because they ignored signs that something bad was going on.
  • 33
    • 77449131349 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • note
    • The simple ignorance of one's country's wrongful act may seem to be sufficient rebuttal, already, of the appropriateness of feeling guilt in its regard. The case in the text will, if anything, be even more persuasive.
  • 34
    • 77449111869 scopus 로고
    • The Stains of War
    • in R.W. Smith (ed.), (Garden City, New York: Anchor Books
    • Cf. J. G. Gray, "The Stains of War," in R.W. Smith (ed.), Guilt: Man and Society (Garden City, New York: Anchor Books, 1971), pp. 291-293
    • (1971) Guilt: Man and Society , pp. 291-293
    • Gray, J.G.1
  • 35
    • 0004295247 scopus 로고
    • Atlantic Highlands, NJ: Humanities Press International
    • J. Horton, Political Obligation (Atlantic Highlands, NJ: Humanities Press International, 1992), p. 153
    • (1992) Political Obligation , pp. 15-17
    • Horton, J.1
  • 36
    • 77449120331 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • op. cit., Greenspan gives the example of "white American guilt about slavery or guilt felt for various other misdeeds that occurred before the birth of those who felt guilty." T shall not here consider the case of guilt over "misdeeds" of one's group which occurred before one was a member. The story here may be at least somewhat different - though perhaps not wholly different - from that of those who were group members at the time the misdeed occurred
    • P. Greenspan, op. cit., p. 162. Greenspan gives the example of "white American guilt about slavery or guilt felt for various other misdeeds that occurred before the birth of those who felt guilty." T shall not here consider the case of guilt over "misdeeds" of one's group which occurred before one was a member. The story here may be at least somewhat different - though perhaps not wholly different - from that of those who were group members at the time the misdeed occurred.
    • Greenspan, P.1
  • 37
    • 0009227433 scopus 로고
    • As I read K. Jaspers in his fine, probing essay he feels that this is so. He writes that"⋯ in a way which is rationally not conceivable, which is even rationally refutable, I feel co-responsible for what Germans do and have done - As a philosopher I now seem to have strayed completely into the realm of feeling and to have abandoned conception", tr. E.B. Ashton (New York: Capricorn Books, My argument in Sections 4 and following suggest that he may, after all, not have "abandoned conception" or strayed from what is rationally conceivable. I hope to treat Jaspers's work more directly and in greater length in another place
    • As I read K. Jaspers in his fine, probing essay The Question of German Guilt, he feels that this is so. He writes that"⋯ in a way which is rationally not conceivable, which is even rationally refutable, I feel co-responsible for what Germans do and have done - As a philosopher I now seem to have strayed completely into the realm of feeling and to have abandoned conception", tr. E.B. Ashton (New York: Capricorn Books, 1947), pp. 80-81. My argument in Sections 4 and following suggest that he may, after all, not have "abandoned conception" or strayed from what is rationally conceivable. I hope to treat Jaspers's work more directly and in greater length in another place.
    • (1947) The Question of German Guilt , pp. 80-81
  • 38
    • 77449096473 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • op. cit
    • Taylor, op. cit., pp. 91 and 93.
    • Taylor1
  • 39
    • 77449094865 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • As proposed by Greenspan, op. cit., p. 171 and elsewhere
    • As proposed by Greenspan, op. cit., p. 171 and elsewhere.
  • 40
    • 77449121634 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • "Thin" in part because it does not go so far as to say that a feeling of guilt over a blameworthy act presumes that the act is one's own
    • "Thin" in part because it does not go so far as to say that a feeling of guilt over a blameworthy act presumes that the act is one's own.
  • 41
    • 77449146844 scopus 로고
    • L. May
    • Page references that follow will be to the excerpt from this book in L. May and S. Hoffman (eds.), (Savage, MD: Rowman and Little field, I shall not discuss the relationship of May's notion of metaphysical guilt to that found in Jaspers's essay. As I understand Jaspers, metaphysical guilt in his sense has to do with human solidarity as opposed to membership in particular human groups such as families, and would not appropriately be invoked to explain the kind of case at issue here. Jaspers's notion of "political guilt" may be closer to out topic. On the other hand, it appears not to involve a group's wrongdoing so much as its vanquished status. I shall not pursue Jasper's discussion further here
    • L. May, Sharing Responsibility. Page references that follow will be to the excerpt from this book in L. May and S. Hoffman (eds.), Collective Responsibility: Five Decades of Debate in Theoretical and Applied Ethics (Savage, MD: Rowman and Little field, 1991). I shall not discuss the relationship of May's notion of metaphysical guilt to that found in Jaspers's essay. As I understand Jaspers, metaphysical guilt in his sense has to do with human solidarity as opposed to membership in particular human groups such as families, and would not appropriately be invoked to explain the kind of case at issue here. Jaspers's notion of "political guilt" may be closer to out topic. On the other hand, it appears not to involve a group's wrongdoing so much as its vanquished status. I shall not pursue Jasper's discussion further here.
    • (1991) Collective Responsibility: Five Decades of Debate in Theoretical and Applied Ethics
  • 44
    • 77449110662 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • Cf. op. cit., p. 241
    • Cf. op. cit., p. 241.
  • 45
    • 77449146429 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • Op. cit., p. 247
    • Op. cit., p. 247.
  • 46
    • 77449143958 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • Op. cit., p. 247, second full paragraph
    • Op. cit., p. 247, second full paragraph.
  • 47
    • 77449143534 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • See, for instance, Horton, op. cit., pp. 15Iff
    • See, for instance, Horton, op. cit., pp. 15Iff.
  • 48
    • 77449160906 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • Taylor, loc. cit
    • Taylor, loc. cit.
  • 49
    • 62449122587 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • cites "solidarity" as a "necessary condition of the vicarious emotions" (he refers to pride and shame), Feinberg gives a complex account of what he calls "solidarity" (Some elements of this (for instance "sharing a common cooperative purpose") have some affinity with the background conditions T describe in the text below. See also his brief allusion to "the plural possessive 'our'," p. 63. It is not clear that Feinberg would allow that guilt, as opposed to shame, is a possible "vicarious emotion." I shall not attempt here any close comparison of my views with Feinberg's
    • J. Feinberg cites "solidarity" as a "necessary condition of the vicarious emotions" (he refers to pride and shame), "Collective Responsibility," p. 65. Feinberg gives a complex account of what he calls "solidarity" (p. 62). Some elements of this (for instance "sharing a common cooperative purpose") have some affinity with the background conditions T describe in the text below. See also his brief allusion to "the plural possessive 'our'," p. 63. It is not clear that Feinberg would allow that guilt, as opposed to shame, is a possible "vicarious emotion." I shall not attempt here any close comparison of my views with Feinberg's.
    • Collective Responsibility , pp. 65
    • Feinberg, J.1
  • 50
    • 77449147212 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • note
    • "We may bear moral guilt...."I take it that according to the intuitive picture we do
  • 51
    • 77449083346 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • Should it be rejected otherwise? I shall neither explore nor pronounce upon that issue here
    • Should it be rejected otherwise? I shall neither explore nor pronounce upon that issue here.
  • 52
    • 0004262394 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • It is possible, of course, that in some groups a rule of the group may forbid the expression of personal disapproval of the. group's actions According to the present argument, such a rule would be needed to supplement the understandings implicit in the joint commitment underlying the intention of a plural subject: it is not implicitly present, I discuss group conventions and rules in Chap. 6, and an essay "On Social Rules: Some Problems for Hart's Account and a New Proposal" (ms)
    • It is possible, of course, that in some groups a rule of the group may forbid the expression of personal disapproval of the. group's actions According to the present argument, such a rule would be needed to supplement the understandings implicit in the joint commitment underlying the intention of a plural subject: it is not implicitly present, I discuss group conventions and rules in On Social Facts, Chap. 6, and an essay "On Social Rules: Some Problems for Hart's Account and a New Proposal" (ms).
    • On Social Facts
  • 53
    • 77449084178 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • note
    • I shall not attempt to explore here the conditions under which it is appropriate to ascribe guilt or blameworthiness to a group in relation to a given action of the group. The intuitive picture assumes that there are such conditions, and for present purposes I shall not question this.
  • 54
    • 84974098193 scopus 로고
    • Me, you, and us: Distinguishing 'egoism,' 'altruism,' and 'groupism'
    • Similarly, "altruism" (roughly, concern for "others") finds its natural contrast in "egoism" (roughly, concern for "self"). For thoughts on this contrast which parallel those in the following paragraphs
    • Similarly, "altruism" (roughly, concern for "others") finds its natural contrast in "egoism" (roughly, concern for "self"). For thoughts on this contrast which parallel those in the following paragraphs, see M. Gilbert, "Me, You, and Us: Distinguishing 'Egoism,' 'Altruism,' and 'Groupism'," in Behavioral and Brain Sciences 17(4) (December 1994), pp. 621-22.
    • (1994) Behavioral and Brain Sciences , vol.17 , Issue.4 , pp. 621-622
    • Gilbert, M.1
  • 55
    • 77449088643 scopus 로고
    • Here I consciously echo J.J. Rousseau's reference to people uniting so that "their forces are directed by means of a single moving power and made to act in concert." The passage in question has been translated rather variously. Here I quote from - and echo - the translation of (Indianapolis, IN: Hackett
    • Here I consciously echo J.J. Rousseau's reference to people uniting so that "their forces are directed by means of a single moving power and made to act in concert." The passage in question has been translated rather variously. Here I quote from - and echo - the translation of D.A. Cress, On the Social Contract (Indianapolis, IN: Hackett, 1983), p. 23.
    • (1983) On the Social Contract , pp. 23
    • Cress, D.A.1
  • 56
    • 77449085418 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • Punishment-of-oneself-as-a-member may be an example of something which inevitably has a "double effect," one of which (self-affiiction) is not intended
    • Punishment-of-oneself-as-a-member may be an example of something which inevitably has a "double effect," one of which (self-affiiction) is not intended.
  • 57
    • 77449161311 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • Possibly my thought of this example was influenced by J. Feinberg's reference to joint bank accounts, op. cit., p. 63
    • Possibly my thought of this example was influenced by J. Feinberg's reference to joint bank accounts, op. cit., p. 63.
  • 58
    • 77449118496 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • note
    • I have in mind the possibility that one is committed qua resident in a particular part of the world, so that leaving that place would bring one's commitment to an end without one's fellows having to agree to a rescension of the joint commitment. On the topic of the "alienablity" of membership see also the text, above.
  • 59
    • 77449110450 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • note
    • Pride often concerns the achievements of those "representing" the group, and guilt may also. I will not be exploring this aspect of the question of collective guilt or glory here.
  • 60
    • 77449142428 scopus 로고    scopus 로고
    • note
    • I do not go so far as to say that a member should feel guilt in such a case. Probably this is not true in general If the wrong in question is very minor, for instance, a feeling of guilt may not he called for because the wrong is too trivial (I owe this example to J. Raz, in discussion at Columbia University). In other cases there may be a sense it which it is called for. This may not amount to its being the case that members should feel guilt then, that it is some sort of requirement that they do. I am not entirely sure what the requirement that someone feel guilt in some context would amount to. In any case, if the wrong is great a feeling of membership guilt is not ruled out on the grounds of having an improper object, and is appropriate in the sense that one's group has indeed acted veiy badly.


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